Obama the Anti-Christ

[NY~Raver]

So I have talked to a few Navajo's and they have told me that Obama is the Anti Christ anyone know why these people believe this?

[Bhairava]

there is no Anti Christ in the Native religion of the Navajo, you have obviously been talking to Christian converts.

[Senor Tapatio]

^ Pwnage!


Gotta love those cooky Christians and their never ending quest of guilt for the masses!

[Pink]

this should answer your questions:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS2rJP-udUs

[NY~Raver]

Haha yeah well they could have been converts to something but not LDS i met em at a coffee shop, but that some funny shit. lol

[Eris]

maybe they were converts to Christianity.....:Stick Poke:

[NY~Raver]

well anti christ should be a big hint on that one. Now that I think hard about it I believe they were refering to some Mayan thing though not their own religious beliefs but they could have been spreading some bs for all i know

[NuQ]

perhaps they said something like this? The mayan "long count" calendar ends in 2012... Which would be The end of obama's first term as president. herald of the end of days?

Every culture has an aprocryphal "end of days" scenario(or had, some cultures provided another's end of days long before it's time.)

[Bhairava]

perhaps they said something like this? The mayan "long count" calendar ends in 2012... Which would be The end of obama's first term as president. herald of the end of days?

Every culture has an aprocryphal "end of days" scenario(or had, some cultures provided another's end of days long before it's time.)

or perhaps there culture died out before the calander was complete. I believe the calender doesnt refer to any end time event, rather the calender just ends. people always make mountains out of mole hills in this world and for some reason obsess with the end times. if it were not for the three abrahamic religions ( judaism, islam and christianity) I doubt there would be this obsession with the "end of days".

[NuQ]

or perhaps there culture died out before the calander was complete. I believe the calender doesnt refer to any end time event, rather the calender just ends. people always make mountains out of mole hills in this world and for some reason obsess with the end times. if it were not for the three abrahamic religions ( judaism, islam and christianity) I doubt there would be this obsession with the "end of days".


Thats what i was saying... it's a recurring theme in almost every culture. there is aways an "end". whether it be armageddon, gehenna, rapture, the apocalypse, etc... but even indigenous races(including the mayans) all have an end time or at least a "time to leave". it's an almost morbid facination with our own demise and a questionable distraction in my opinion.

[Bhairava]

Thats what i was saying... it's a recurring theme in almost every culture. there is aways an "end". whether it be armageddon, gehenna, rapture, the apocalypse, etc... but even indigenous races(including the mayans) all have an end time or at least a "time to leave". it's an almost morbid facination with our own demise and a questionable distraction in my opinion.

true, but you also have to realize that most of the people who translate these things and research these things are most likey from one of the three abrahamic religions and so in translateing they are relateting things to there own, culture and "spiritual knowledge" these "end times" spoken of in non Abrahamic traditions may mearly(sp) be speaking of the end of an age, or era which coinside with astorolgical or cosmic events and are probably totally unrelated to the end time scenario in the torah the bible and the koran. you also have to realize that non abrahamic religions were not created for mass controle like the abrahamic religions and that one of the greatest tools for controle is fear, hence where satan, hell and judgement all play a part. if you keep people fearfull you keep them under controle. and people love a good drama instead of saying "oh the mayan calender was incomplete and stops at 2012." its OMG the Calender stops at 2012 its a fortelling of the end of the world some huge disaster is going to happen!" see what im saying. so yeah why focus on the uknown when the uknown hasnt even happened. I mean I guess the sun could explode in 2012 and ingulf the earth or aliens could come and wipe us out and Obama could be the "Anti christ". but truth is its unnecessary speculation meant to cause fear and distract. and truely the only reason why people think that Obama is the Anti christ is becuase they cant explain any other way of how a black man could become president of the united states of america, rather then look at the facts its "he must be the anti christ!" its seriously stupid.

[NuQ]

...you're saying the aztec's use of psychadelic drugs and ritual sacrifice was not intended for "mass control"? so they were just insane then, eh? I like you, you're silly.

As for the mayan calendar... its not that it is incomplete. they had 3 calendars, a seasonal calendar which varied, the short count(consecutive cycles) and then the long count. the mayan long count calendar is not incomplete. it is a very definitive frame of reference. from what was translated, the end of the long count is where they believe time ends. TIME. not the end of an age, not an "oh, we'll get to that later." kind've thing. after 2012 time will be no longer.

as for your point on judeo-christian beliefs and the end of days, influencing the translations... i tend to agree, but not completely. yes, most scholars working on this project come from the western world where their ideology is heavily influenced by such concepts like judgement day... however, there are also a lot of native scholars working on it too.

Like i said before, i'm not a believer in a lot of this crap, but it is interesting...

[NuQ]

Oh... also, the anasazi mysteriously disappeared. The hopi claim them as their ancestors... they say the culture did not vanish, did not die, nor was it conquered. it was just their "time to leave." its not just a western interpretation based upon judeo-christian beliefs. it IS a recurring theme in most cultures.

[Bhairava]

...you're saying the aztec's use of psychadelic drugs and ritual sacrifice was not intended for "mass control"? so they were just insane then, eh? I like you, you're silly.

As for the mayan calendar... its not that it is incomplete. they had 3 calendars, a seasonal calendar which varied, the short count(consecutive cycles) and then the long count. the mayan long count calendar is not incomplete. it is a very definitive frame of reference. from what was translated, the end of the long count is where they believe time ends. TIME. not the end of an age, not an "oh, we'll get to that later." kind've thing. after 2012 time will be no longer.

as for your point on judeo-cristian beliefs and the end of days, influencing the translations... i tend to agree, but not completely. yes, most scholars working on this project come from the western world where their ideology is heavily influenced by such concepts like judgement day... however, there are also a lot of native scholars working on it too.

Like i said before, i'm not a believer in a lot of this crap, but it is interesting...

and yeah so the mayans could totally see 2000 years into the future they must be right, did you ever stop to think that maybe the word they used didnt have an english equivalent and the closest thing they could think of was time. if you know anything about languages this happens all the time. and how do you know for a fact thats what the mayans meant when they created the calander? that it signified the "end of time" oh wait cause some western scholar told you thats what it meant I guess thats true then too. in one of the pyramids in egypt a time line going into the future stops at 2010 many believe its becuase "time stops" perhaps a more realistic answer would be they just stopped. even a more realistic spiritual answer would be they could see no further. it doesnt mean its the end, of all things.

as far as the Aztecs and their use of psycodelic drugs and human sacrifice being a tool of absolute opressive controle like Islam and christianity and judaism, please explain I fail to see it. and didnt the Aztec's sacrifice there prisoners of war and enemies not there own people. ofcourse I could be wrong. it seems to me this would strike fear into hearts of there enemies rather then there own people ofcourse again I could be wrong. and psycodelic drugs brought them into the spiritual world and gave them spiritual visions I dont know im still failing to see the fear controle in this.

[NuQ]

I did not say it is the end of all things, not even the end of the world... just that time stops. i keep saying that. i don't think you're listening. and next, yes, they "could totally see 2000 years into the future". they accurately predicted the year when our little neighborhood of the solar system was going to be in alignment with the center of the galaxy and when the earth would complete a full wobble on its revolutionary path, a movemet which is less than 1º in either direction, something that takes about 2000 years. (i think its in the neighborhood of 1920)

so uh, yeah.. they "totally could see 2000 years into the future" as you(cutely) said. they were more aware of the cosmos than most cosmologists are today. it was central to their culture.

Aztecs: Only the shamans were able to dispense the drugs, the drugs were viewed as the gateway to heaven... you do not get to heaven without the permission of others. how is that not the same as "if you don't go to church and be a good little boy, you don't go to heaven?"

[Bhairava]

Oh... also, the anasazi mysteriously disappeared. The hopi claim them as their ancestors... they say the culture did not vanish, did not die, nor was it conquered. it was just their "time to leave." its not just a western interpretation based upon judeo-christian beliefs. it IS a recurring theme in most cultures.

many cultures have dissapeared or were intergrated into other cultures many ancient cities were abandoned and we havent been able to figure out why. cultures come and go sometimes with it there people. perhaps then with that being said and with what you have said above maybe the mayans will vanish without a trace in 2012 since there calander only refers to there culture. not the world as a whole but the mayan world. this was an ancient culture with little to no knowledge of the outside world beyond there shores. you called me silly above yet I find it more silly that people believe it refers to the end of time for the world as a whole.

[Bhairava]

I did not say it is the end of all things, not even the end of the world... just that time stops. i keep saying that. i don't think you're listening. and next, yes, they "could totally see 2000 years into the future". they accurately predicted the year when our little neighborhood of the solar system was going to be in alignment with the center of the galaxy and when the earth would complete a full wobble on its revolutionary path, a movemet which is less than 1º in either direction, something that takes about 2000 years. (i think its in the neighborhood of 1920)

so uh, yeah.. they "totally could see 2000 years into the future" as you(cutely) said. they were more aware of the cosmos than most cosmologists are today. it was central to their culture.

Aztecs: Only the shamans were able to dispense the drugs, the drugs were viewed as the gateway to heaven... you do not get to heaven without the permission of others. how is that not the same as "if you don't go to church and be a good little boy, you don't go to heaven?"

Heaven you say hmmm yeah im sure thats an actual aztec word.

[NuQ]

It is silly... I don't necessarily believe it, but i think there is something that should be looked into further. They may have been isolated from other cultures... but they knew far more about the stars. thats what makes it so interesting, isolated from contact with others - but looking to the stars. no, i don't think aliens gave them the info, if thats where you were going to go(i re-read my statement and realised it sounded a little too roswell :P)

[NuQ]

Heaven you say hmmm yeah im sure thats an actual aztec word.


You know what i mean, Don't be an ass... unless you want me to be one too.


and psycodelic drugs brought them into the spiritual world.

"Spiritual world" hmmmm yeah. I'm sure that or anything you have ever said IN YOUR LIFE, Let alone this conversation, is an aztec word.

[Bhairava]

with out the use of psycodelics they could not enter into the realm of the gods or spiritual world or have visions. true. I still dont see how this is a means of controle cept in only the shamans and priests did this. and the people did not. I still dont see how they used fear in religion to controle the masses like you claimed above. please by all means explain.

[NuQ]

I didnt say they used fear, i said they had instruments of mass control. you claimed only judeo-christian, or as you say... abrahamic religions used religious/spiritual instruments as methods of mass control. i disagree.

what is it with you and fearmongering? Every socio-political discussion i've ever had with you, you always resort back to FEAR. it's starting to get suspicious...

[Bhairava]

It is silly... I don't necessarily believe it, but i think there is something that should be looked into further.

haha yeah totally:rolleyes: here are what some western scholars have even said about it;

Despite the publicity generated by the 2012 date, Susan Milbrath, curator of Latin American Art and Archaeology at the Florida Museum of Natural History, stated that "We [the archaeological community] have no record or knowledge that [the Maya] would think the world would come to an end" in 2012.
"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. in Crystal River, Florida. To render December 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."
"There will be another cycle," says E. Wyllys Andrews V, director of the Tulane University Middle American Research Institute (MARI). "We know the Maya thought there was one before this, and that implies they were comfortable with the idea of another one after this."

even a Mayan king predicted an event well past 2012:

The king pacal of palenque predicted that on this date the eightieth Calendar Round anniversary of his accession will be celebrated, suggesting he did not believe the world would end in 2012.

[NuQ]

Hey! HEY! YES. YOU! BEHIND THE COMPUTER! I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT THE WORLD WOULD END! CAN YOU SEE THIS? HEY! PAY ATTENTION! i know it must be hard for you, but i wuld like to take this time, now that i have your attention... to make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. I DO NOT BELIEVE THE WORLD WILL END.

Just that they had made several predictions that proved to be accurate. there is something more to look into, as in: how were they able to make such observations of the sky that we, a modern society, could not seem to do without theuse of sophisticated instruments... thats all im saying. and jsut to be clear... for the 5th or 6th time:

I DO NOT THINK IT IS A PROPHECY OF THE END OF THE WORLD. GET OVER IT ALREADY.

thank you. :)

Edit: heh... i almost forgot. you just quoted those evil "Western scholars" you've been trying to discredit the duration of this entire discussion. OOOH. PLEASE QUOTE AN EASTERN ONE! THAT WOULD BE GREAT! oh, wait... nevermind.

[Bhairava]

Hey! HEY! YES. YOU! BEHIND THE COMPUTER! I NEVER SAID I THOUGHT THE WORLD WOULD END! CAN YOU SEE THIS? HEY! PAY ATTENTION! i know it must be hard for you, but i wuld like to take this time, now that i have your attention... to make it ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. I DO NOT BELIEVE THE WORLD WILL END.

Just that they had made several predictions that proved to be accurate. there is something more to look into, as in: how were they able to make such observations of the sky that we, a modern society, could not seem to do without theuse of sophisticated instruments... thats all im saying. and jsut to be clear... for the 5th or 6th time:

I DO NOT THINK IT IS A PROPHECY OF THE END OF THE WORLD. GET OVER IT ALREADY.

thank you. :)

just to clarify and im not trying to add to your already obvious frustration and anger, which is silly unto itself. but you have stated in your own words that the calander refers to the "end of time" again those were your own words. which was actually the end of the cycle. not of time. there are mayan "Distance dates" that go well beyond 2012 the long count calander for that cycle ends on Dec 21 2012. so going back to what i said before and I correct myself it was not that it was unfinifshed it was totally complete they just had not begun the calender for the new cycle. I understand that you you dont beleive its the end of the world but with statements like "it needs to be looked into further" would imply that you did or that there might be some truth to it. aswell as stateing it refered to the "end of time" again your own words! maybe you could work on clarification of your statements. thanks :)

[NuQ]

Alright, alright. i'll admit i was annoyed by your continuing insinuations. Lets play nicely.

End of time: what is time other than a relative observation? we don't know the context they intended. all it is translated to is "time will be no longer".

context: the translated phrase could be interpreted in many ways which have completely different implications.

Time as an event or substance: "Time will be no longer" as in, it will no longer be around? cease to exist or be pertinant?

-OR-

time as a measurment of perceived length: "time will be no longer" could also mean that NOTHING WILL CHANGE.


Its apocryphal and open to interpretation...


as for looking into it further, they were pretty advanced for their time, sort of like how we have not yet figured out how they built the pyramids in egypt. i did not mean for this conversation to go this far, but when i say i believe there is something worth looking into, i mean, there is an ancient wisdom that we have somehow been without.

One thing i want to know is... if they supposedly predicted dates beyond the end of the long count... what calendar were they using? also... who told you that? those evil western scholars?

[Bhairava]

Alright, alright. i'll admit i was annoyed by your continuing insinuations. Lets play nicely.

End of time: what is time other than a relative observation? we don't know the context they intended. all it is translated to is "time will be no longer".

context: the translated phrase could be interpreted in many ways which have completely different implications.

Time as an event or substance: "Time will be no longer" as in, it will no longer be around? cease to exist or be pertinant?

-OR-

time as a measurment of perceived length: "time will be no longer" could also mean that NOTHING WILL CHANGE.


Its apocryphal and open to interpretation...


as for looking into it further, they were pretty advanced for their time, sort of like how we have not yet figured out how they built the pyramids in egypt. i did not mean for this conversation to go this far, but when i say i believe there is something worth looking into, i mean, there is an ancient wisdom that we have somehow been without.

well time does end for that cycle. but to imply that there is nothing beyond the cycle is rediculous. thats all i was trying to say that and the so called mayan predicition of the end of the world was heavely influenced by western culture. and true you were right when you say many cultures speak of an end time or time of rebirth or the ending of an age so a new age can begin. but the abrahmic philosophy concerning this is by far the most extreme. oh and by the way I didnt make up the term Abrahamic it refers to the fact that these three religions have something in comon they share the god of abraham. look it up if you like. but anyway im done and bored with this conversation.

[NuQ]

I don't need to look it up, i know it is a real term, but one i don't think you fully realise yourself... in islam, they say that ishmael, son of abraham, founded mecca... beyond that, there isn't that much of a consistency in the story or that many references to abraham and his "great works", which is why i prefer the term judeo-christian when referring to the mentality we've discussed. it's a bit more accurate. in islam there is a "heaven" but rarely is spoken of the end times. it differs from the other two "abrahamic faiths".

You're bored huh? i bet you are... ad hominem attacks and implying your own personal opinion all the time must be exhausting.

[Bhairava]

I don't need to look it up, i know it is a real term, but one i don't think you fully realise yourself... in islam, they say that ishmael, son of abraham, founded mecca... beyond that, there isn't that much of a consistency in the story or that many references to abraham and his "great works", which is why i prefer the term judeo-christian when referring to the mentality we've discussed. it's a bit more accurate. in islam there is a "heaven" but rarely is spoken of the end times. it differs from the other two "abrahamic faiths".

You're bored huh? i bet you are... you're boring.

yeah cause you know everything about me from the internet lol more assumptions. haha you think your so educated yet you continuely make these statements that prove you wrong or that your not very educated yourself. if its one thing I know alot about and more then most people is religion and philosophy, and spirituality. and not just about one or 2 or a few religions but most of them that are known to man even those that predate recorded history so dont even go there with the attitude of I know more then you especially on subjects relateing to this I havent spent the last 10 years studying it extensivly to not know anything or not know what im talking about. I study it cause it interests me. do I know everything no. do I know more then u on the subject obviously. do you also know that all prophets in islam are concidered descendants of ishmal which makes them are you ready for this..........decendents of abraham. so its alot deeper then him just discovering mecca lol also they do speak of end times quite similar to christian and judaism im almost certain you havent heard of this but i'll ask anyway just to be nice have you heard of the term yawm al-Qiyāmah guess what, it means day of resurrection which also means yam ad-din or day of judgement, also known as as sa-sa last hour. you know what precedes this day? trials and tribulation or last days. described in both the quaran(sp)and the hadith. so for them rarely speaking of it as you have said, i find it interesting that its described in 2 not just 1 but 2 important islamic texts! so seriously before you argue religion with me do your research cause I will call you on your lack of knowledge!

[Bhairava]

I also like how you keep changeing your comments yet I have already quoted you lol grow up alittle and then come back and we'll have an adult conversation.

[NuQ]

one thing I know alot about and more then most people is religion and philosophy, and spirituality. and not just about one or 2 or a few religions but most of them that are known to man even those that predate recorded history


Those that predate recorded history? so uh... how did you learn about them? from an evil western scholar? or can you time travel? heh.

ok, i don't know that much about religion, at least not as much as you claim to know from unrecorded history, heh. please, teach me the secret to time travel so i can learn about unrecorded events.


so you "know" religion, you "know" philosophy(lol, isn't philosophy about questioning what you think know?) and you "know" spirituality.

ok... i wont argue with an "expert" on the intangible. congrats kid, you can dream! however if you'd like to explore rality sometime i promise you i will give you a tour and provide you with a safety helmet.

[NuQ]

I also like how you keep changeing your comments yet I have already quoted you lol grow up alittle and then come back and we'll have an adult conversation.

I changed that last comment because it was unsavory. you are not a boring person. you're engaging. but i have little respect for ad hominem attacks. which seem to be your forte...

[Bhairava]

Those that predate recorded history? so uh... how did you learn about them? from an evil western scholar? or can you time travel? heh.

ok, i don't know that much about religion, at least not as much as you claim to know from unrecorded history, heh. please, teach me the secret to time travel so i can learn about unrecorded events.


so you "know" religion, you "know" philosophy(lol, isn't philosophy about questioning what you think know?) and you "know" spirituality.

ok... i wont argue with an "expert" on the intangible. congrats kid, you can dream! however if you'd like to explore rality sometime i promise you i will give you a tour and provide you with a safety helmet.


see I dont even have to say anything your posts speak for themselves wow eveything i just said about you above has now been confirmed. thanks for validateing my point on your lack of knowledge.

[Pink]

no matter how you dice it.. this isn't an adult conversation.,

[NuQ]

agreed... I'm gonna stand down.

Bhairava, You have a way of pushing my buttons and all i want to do is dig my claws in. Now that i go back and look at this shit(this is shit) i'm not sure how we got here. I apologise for the cheapshots.

this is how wars are started...

[A.D]

someone want to summarize this thread for me in 1, or maybe 2 sentences if possible?

[NuQ]

It started with religious rhetoric, i made a presumption that de-evolved into a pissing contest/statistics war of the intangible. There were no casualties.

[NY~Raver]

Look at the wonderful thread I started tis so nice.

[Pink]

make no doubt in your mind.. obama is the anti-christ.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfDEdG0qBs&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_841L0tKCCE&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQoV_Ngl-G8

[KC Meat]

Did I forget to mention that I built a time machine, went back and visited the Mayans, and convinced them it would be hilarious to put a date on a calendar for the "end of time?" It's amazing what people will do when they think you're a god.

[NY~Raver]

^ I am suing you for patent infringement. I copied your machine and than went in time before you made it and patentd it. Expect to hear from my lawyer.