Adam & Eve

[PapaChops]

So here's a question, mostly directed towards the practitioners of the Christian faiths. The held belief is that Adam & Eve are the sires of the human race. They had children, their children had children and their children's children had children. But here's what I'd like to know.

For this to have been true, then that means that Adam & Eves offspring had to have copulated with each other, and in turn their children copulated with each other (or worse yet with their parents) and so on and hence fourth. Now wouldn't this have lead to a very large portion of the population being rather inbred? First rule of genetics, spread the genes around, so I'm told. Just curious what the varying churches stance is on this.

[Walka]

So here's a question, mostly directed towards the practitioners of the Christian faiths. The held belief is that Adam & Eve are the sires of the human race. They had children, their children had children and their children's children had children. But here's what I'd like to know.

For this to have been true, then that means that Adam & Eves offspring had to have copulated with each other, and in turn their children copulated with each other (or worse yet with their parents) and so on and hence fourth. Now wouldn't this have lead to a very large portion of the population being rather inbred? First rule of genetics, spread the genes around, so I'm told. Just curious what the varying churches stance is on this.

yep.

that's why we're all retarded and not as "holy" and "righteous" as they were :p

[Blacksunshine]

Ironic this exact topic came up on another forum I am members of yesterday.

IF you read it with that mind perspective then YES that would mean that there would have been imbreeding. But many people take the words a bit further in order to "clean that up a bit"

Adam and Eve could be the first christian faith couple of their time...in turn they were the first PEOPLE here, but they were the first ONE GOD beliving souls here.

There is another idea that I buy more then any other. Books are a fanstatic refrence for finding myth but in myth we find ways of life, choices, decisions, battles, losses, gains, hope, fear, morals. To me, all the bible is....is a book of myth created by people that wanted to "alter" the way of life at that time...and it turned into a best seller, and a religion...as many of them do.

Adam and Eve, in My opinion...never existed. :)

This story might be based of two people that people may have known. But adam and Even IMO were absolutely not the first people here. that whole theory makes no sence.

[KC Meat]

...Now wouldn't this have lead to a very large portion of the population being rather inbred?Have you not seen how stupid/retarded/brain dead the majority of society is?!...the more news stories I see, the more I'm starting to think we all ARE inbred :D


Adam and Eve, in My opinion...never existed. Oh, I'm sure they existed...only they had a lot more hair all over...and didn't give shit about wearing fig leaves...

[Blacksunshine]

^^for sure


It's amazing how incredibly hot they are...in all those pictures. ;)


hahaha Yeah, like many "mythical people" sure they may have existed, but in alot of cases you have to think the story was a bit exagerated.


Eh, I donno, could just be me. :o

[KC Meat]

Yea, and amazingly enough, the oldest human remains we've found are in africa, and adam and eve were white...crazy shit right thur...and jesus was white too somehow...

[Blacksunshine]

There was a really really thick o zone then KC. There were no black people....and if you see pictures and read that there were...its those stories that are lying...not the Old Testament.


I will NEVER belive that Adam and Eve were the first humans. I never understood that whole story... Why do we need to know the creation of man anyway? we're here. Be nice, or not...whatever.

[Killy]

There was a really really thick o zone then KC. There were no black people....and if you see pictures and read that there were...its those stories that are lying...not the Old Testament.


I will NEVER belive that Adam and Eve were the first humans. I never understood that whole story... Why do we need to know the creation of man anyway? we're here. Be nice, or not...whatever.
According to the Bible it wasn't just an ozone, but a full on sea in the sky. That is supposed to explain how the preflood bible characters were able to live almost 1000 years by saying it blocked all the harmful aging rays from the sun. Adam and Eve existed in hundreds upon thousands of generations of not quite humans.

[Blacksunshine]

oh, well that explains everything. Thank you, now I belive that story


YAY adam and eve

[Killy]

Yeah, a lot of people don't know that water can defy gravity.

[Blacksunshine]

It's becuase it's biblical. That is the time of mystery...we are not supposed to question it...it just is.

[Opaz]

The rock chipped on the stone tablet that said Adam and Eve... it really said Adam and Steve.

[suckafish]

haha. gay on, zapo. you wish, suckafish.

i should be able to rep myself for cleverly using my own name in a post.

[KC Meat]

The rock chipped on the stone tablet that said Adam and Eve... it really said Adam and Steve.Yea, cuz two guys were able to make a baby...it became Adam and Steve once Adam and Eve had a baby boy named Steve :D

[Killy]

Well there was that whole thing about the angel with a "flaming sword" keeping people out of Eden.

[KC Meat]

You think it's a coincidence we have the FATHER the SON and the HOLY SPIRIT (AKA father's penis)???

[Killy]

Not really. With that whole deal it isn't surprising that Jesus is a motherfucker too. Seeing as Jesus is God, and God impregnated Mary.

[KC Meat]

So...calling somebody a motherfucker is close to calling them jesus/god?...

[Killy]

Dammit, I didn't think of it that way. Fucking Christ that mother fucker screwed up the fucking insult!

[Bhairava]

Adam & Eve the joke of the century! this world is billions of years old and has gone thru age after age after age! there is proof of Ancient advanced civillizations every where. you should look up strange rellics from the earth in any search engine and see what comes up. perhaps we were conditioned to forget the real past! plus I think Darwins theory of evollution and Adam & Eve as theorys on the beginnings of Human exsistance is just plain stupid! if two people started the human race then why do different races have distinguishing physical features that go beyond the color of the skin with distinct DNA paterns? and if we evolved from apes why are there still apes? why did some evolve and not others? anyway I think we are in an age that maybe started with what we know as the extent of our history but the history of the human race and intelligent life on this planet goes way beyond that! anyway my :2cents:

[PapaChops]

Adam & Eve the joke of the century! this world is billions of years old and has gone thru age after age after age! there is proof of Ancient advanced civillizations every where. you should look up strange rellics from the earth in any search engine and see what comes up. perhaps we were conditioned to forget the real past! plus I think Darwins theory of evollution and Adam & Eve as theorys on the beginnings of Human exsistance is just plain stupid! if two people started the human race then why do different races have distinguishing physical features that go beyond the color of the skin with distinct DNA paterns? and if we evolved from apes why are there still apes? why did some evolve and not others? anyway I think we are in an age that maybe started with what we know as the extent of our history but the history of the human race and intelligent life on this planet goes way beyond that! anyway my :2cents:

This is something I see a lot that drives me crazy. We didn't evolve from apes, apes and humans share the same common ancestor. While apes have advanced somewhat and can use the most basic of tools, humans kept on advancing. Why? Well if we new why then we would be able to finally shut up the folks who think Creationism should be taught in high schools;)

[Bhairava]

This is something I see a lot that drives me crazy. We didn't evolve from apes, apes and humans share the same common ancestor. While apes have advanced somewhat and can use the most basic of tools, humans kept on advancing. Why? Well if we new why then we would be able to finally shut up the folks who think Creationism should be taught in high schools;)

ok, so we shared the same common ancester and approximatly how many years ago did this ancestor exsist? and what ancestor? if we share the same ancestor then we would have evolved the same yes? why would two species shareing the same common ancestor take off in two different directions? while shareing the same environment! it makes no sense! none at all. its like your saying apes and humans at one time were the same species? and half of the species decided to stay stupid and the other half started to draw pictures and make tools and speak? like are you Jokeing? im sorry but the theory of evolution is just as lame as Creationism/Adam and Eve theory. I dont think either should be taught in school!

[KC Meat]

if we share the same ancestor then we would have evolved the same yes?I dunno, are a cow and a horse exactly the same?...would you say a horse is smarter than a cow?...how about all the different types of birds, did they all evolve EXACTLY the same? (and don't try to use environment, cuz think about how many different types of bird inhabit the SAME environment)...different types of plants as well...sharing a common ancestor doesn't mean you both evolve exactly the same...actually, that statement alone would make anybody instantly write-off whatever came out of your mouth next, as you clearly have absolutely NO understanding of the topic you're trying to intelligently discuss...


why would two species shareing the same common ancestor take off in two different directions? while shareing the same environment! it makes no sense! none at all. Segregation...as a different species begins to evolve, it begins to associate and breed only with members of that same species, thus leaving the others behind...the questions you're asking indicate you really haven't even researched the topic, nor even have a basic understanding of how it works...try taking a college course on biology and genetics before you go around acting like you know what the hell you're talking about...the questions you're asking make you look retarded, cuz they indicate you really don't know ANYTHING about evolution...only little bits and pieces here and there that you've somehow grouped into what you think you know about evolution, but are sadly mistaken...even if two species live in the same environment, that doesn't mean they'll grow/evolve EXACTLY the same...some evolve to find other sources of food, as the competiton they were in previously wasn't working...different nutrient intake = different environment while living in the same environment...if you can't understand that, it may be a hopless cause for you...using your reasoning, the bird that can fly and the bird that can't fly while both living in the desert shouldn't exist...sounds correct :rolleyes:


its like your saying apes and humans at one time were the same species? and half of the species decided to stay stupid and the other half started to draw pictures and make tools and speak? like are you Jokeing? Yea, cuz it was a conscious choice...one day they woke up and said "god damnit, I wanna use tools," so they thought about it REALLY hard and BAM, they changed their genes and evolved :rolleyes: ...you think different dog breeds CHOSE to have certain characteristics??...the fact that you even mentioned a species CHOOSING to evolve indicates you have no idea what you're talking about...for your own sake, please take a course in genetics...actually UNDERSTAND genes, mutations, and replication of genes/DNA, and the phenotypes that come about from such mutations...evolution is a process of random mutations, most of them fatal, which is why it takes an extremely long time for a good mutation to randomly come about...


im sorry but the theory of evolution is just as lame as Creationism/Adam and Eve theory. I dont think either should be taught in school!Maybe you should try learning about it in school and actually understanding it before you write it off...everything you've said says nothing more than "I don't understand evolution, therefore it HAS to be wrong"...our current theory of evolution may not be entirely correct, but in it's current state it explains a HELL of a lot more than simply saying humans were inbred from two beings who magically appeared, one made from the rib of another...if you think evolution is pure bullshit, then you may want to write-off everything we know about DNA as well...if you don't understand the link between the two, you need to educate yourself...

[Bhairava]

I dunno, are a cow and a horse exactly the same?...would you say a horse is smarter than a cow?...how about all the different types of birds, did they all evolve EXACTLY the same? (and don't try to use environment, cuz think about how many different types of bird inhabit the SAME environment)...different types of plants as well...sharing a common ancestor doesn't mean you both evolve exactly the same...actually, that statement alone would make anybody instantly write-off whatever came out of your mouth next, as you clearly have absolutely NO understanding of the topic you're trying to intelligently discuss...

Segregation...as a different species begins to evolve, it begins to associate and breed only with members of that same species, thus leaving the others behind...the questions you're asking indicate you really haven't even researched the topic, nor even have a basic understanding of how it works...try taking a college course on biology and genetics before you go around acting like you know what the hell you're talking about...the questions you're asking make you look retarded, cuz they indicate you really don't know ANYTHING about evolution...only little bits and pieces here and there that you've somehow grouped into what you think you know about evolution, but are sadly mistaken...even if two species live in the same environment, that doesn't mean they'll grow/evolve EXACTLY the same...some evolve to find other sources of food, as the competiton they were in previously wasn't working...different nutrient intake = different environment while living in the same environment...if you can't understand that, it may be a hopless cause for you...using your reasoning, the bird that can fly and the bird that can't fly while both living in the desert shouldn't exist...sounds correct :rolleyes:

Yea, cuz it was a conscious choice...one day they woke up and said "god damnit, I wanna use tools," so they thought about it REALLY hard and BAM, they changed their genes and evolved :rolleyes: ...you think different dog breeds CHOSE to have certain characteristics??...the fact that you even mentioned a species CHOOSING to evolve indicates you have no idea what you're talking about...for your own sake, please take a course in genetics...actually UNDERSTAND genes, mutations, and replication of genes/DNA, and the phenotypes that come about from such mutations...evolution is a process of random mutations, most of them fatal, which is why it takes an extremely long time for a good mutation to randomly come about...

Maybe you should try learning about it in school and actually understanding it before you write it off...everything you've said says nothing more than "I don't understand evolution, therefore it HAS to be wrong"...our current theory of evolution may not be entirely correct, but in it's current state it explains a HELL of a lot more than simply saying humans were inbred from two beings who magically appeared, one made from the rib of another...if you think evolution is pure bullshit, then you may want to write-off everything we know about DNA as well...if you don't understand the link between the two, you need to educate yourself...

well thats cool yo, we each have our own opion and until someone can have undisputable evidence UNDISPUTABLE being the key word or should i say PROOF then as far as im concerned your not right either!

[KC Meat]

well thats cool yo, we each have our own opion and until someone can have undisputable evidence UNDISPUTABLE being the key word or should i say PROOF then as far as im concerned your not right either!I never said evolution was right, I said our current theory may not be exactly right, but it explains what may have happened a HELL of a lot better than any other ideas/theories around...the more you know/learn about it, the more you see just how accurate it could be...I still say you really need to educate yourself on evolution and genetics (and not how you've previously "educated" yourself, as everything you've said indicates you did it completely wrong)...you don't even know what evidence we have for evolution, how it works, how we've observed it recently, how genetics can prove that evolution is a very viable explanation...all you know is it doesn't make sense to you, that it's not 100%, so fuck it, that means it's not right and you don't care/refuse to listen...nothing is 100%...yea, we all have our opinions, but your opinion is a VERY uneducated one, and you make that blatantly obvious...

Edit: You indicate that you refuse to listen or accept something until there's undisputable proof?...what proof does adam and eve/creationism have?...words in a book that invovle man being magically created, the female of which from the rib of the male...it has nothing physical, only words written in a book and changed who knows how many times...what proof does evolution have?...sequenced genetic codes, genetic experiments, and observed evolution of pigeon species....what's holding adam and eve/creationism back?: logic, reason, physical proof...what's holding evolution back?: technology...

[Bhairava]

I never said evolution was right, I said our current theory may not be exactly right, but it explains what may have happened a HELL of a lot better than any other ideas/theories around...the more you know/learn about it, the more you see just how accurate it could be...I still say you really need to educate yourself on evolution and genetics (and not how you've previously "educated" yourself, as everything you've said indicates you did it completely wrong)...you don't even know what evidence we have for evolution, how it works, how we've observed it recently, how genetics can prove that evolution is a very viable explanation...all you know is it doesn't make sense to you, that it's not 100%, so fuck it, that means it's not right and you don't care/refuse to listen...nothing is 100%...yea, we all have our opinions, but your opinion is a VERY uneducated one, and you make that blatantly obvious...

whatever dude im not gonna argue my opinion with you! what I do know of evolution doesnt make sense to me there for I have no interest in studying it further. what I believe is based off my own gathering of information and doesnt have anything to do with adam and eve or evolution. your obviously a scientist so everything you know is science. and thats cool science is right alot of the time but not always! if they were 100% right then it couldnt be disputed at all cause it would be fact! even in your own demeaning manner of discussion admits evolution is still a theory, so there for theres nothing to argue!

[adrena_line]

Bhairava,
It's 100% obvious that you're a moron and are just talking out your ass. You must have never taken a biology class in your entire life to be spouting such nonsense.

I'm not even going to take the time and prove all your dumbass "points" wrong....

not worth it.

[Walka]

kc pwns noobs

[KC Meat]

whatever dude im not gonna argue my opinion with you!Cuz you don't have enough information to do so...your opinion is so uneducated that you don't even know what is used to try and disprove evolution...the only thing disproving it to YOU is your lack of understanding...


what I do know of evolution doesnt make sense to me there for I have no interest in studying it further.Oh, that's a great reason not to research it more...it doesn't make sense to you b/c you didn't thoroughly research it, or you taught yourself and didn't get the information from somebody who actually understands it, like a college professor...every question you initially asked and used as proof that evolution is flawed is actually completely covered and explained by evolution...shit, it's even explained by a BASIC understanding of evolution, of which you obviously have none...you keep saying it's your opinion that evolution isn't right, but you don't even know what the fuck evolution EXACTLY entails, just your misguided attempt at understanding it...how the hell can you have an opinion of something you don't understand?!...the only opinion you can have of evolution at this point in your life is "durr, I don't understand, it too hard to comprehend, I no like"...that's about it...


and thats cool science is right alot of the time but not always! if they were 100% right then it couldnt be disputed at all cause it would be fact!Yea, religion and non-scientifically based theories have a higher record of being "right" than science...what are we thinking for using science? :rolleyes:


even in your own demeaning manner of discussion admits evolution is still a theory, so there for theres nothing to argue!It's only demeaning b/c your ignorant and acting like an idiot...you're trying to talk intelligently about something you don't even understand, so be expected to be ripped a new asshole by those who DO understand it...shit, you're the epitome of the word "ignorant":

ig·no·rant –adjective
1.lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2.lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3.uninformed; unaware.
4.due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

There's nothing to argue b/c you don't even know what the hell you're talking about! You don't know how evolution works and you don't know what's even being used to try and say it's wrong...you have NOTHING to contribute to ANY conversation about evolution...period...acting like you do only makes you look like more and more of an idiot...if you'd like to properly research the topic and get back to us, we'll be more than happy to discuss/argue it with you, until then you best keep to what you know...ignorance...

[Bhairava]

Cuz you don't have enough information to do so...your opinion is so uneducated that you don't even know what is used to try and disprove evolution...the only thing disproving it to YOU is your lack of understanding...

Oh, that's a great reason not to research it more...it doesn't make sense to you b/c you didn't thoroughly research it, or you taught yourself and didn't get the information from somebody who actually understands it, like a college professor...every question you initially asked and used as proof that evolution is flawed is actually completely covered and explained by evolution...shit, it's even explained by a BASIC understanding of evolution, of which you obviously have none...you keep saying it's your opinion that evolution isn't right, but you don't even know what the fuck evolution EXACTLY entails, just your misguided attempt at understanding it...how the hell can you have an opinion of something you don't understand?!...the only opinion you can have of evolution at this point in your life is "durr, I don't understand, it too hard to comprehend, I no like"...that's about it...

Yea, religion and non-scientifically based theories have a higher record of being "right" than science...what are we thinking for using science? :rolleyes:

It's only demeaning b/c your ignorant and acting like an idiot...you're trying to talk intelligently about something you don't even understand, so be expected to be ripped a new asshole by those who DO understand it...shit, you're the epitome of the word "ignorant":

ig·no·rant –adjective
1.lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2.lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3.uninformed; unaware.
4.due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

There's nothing to argue b/c you don't even know what the hell you're talking about! You don't know how evolution works and you don't know what's even being used to try and say it's wrong...you have NOTHING to contribute to ANY conversation about evolution...period...acting like you do only makes you look like more and more of an idiot...if you'd like to properly research the topic and get back to us, we'll be more than happy to discuss/argue it with you, until then you best keep to what you know...ignorance...

lol if I only cared what you thought! this cant be argued!! cause I dont believe it!! maybe im wrong maybe your wrong! WHO CARES! that fact that you keep going on and on about it either means your bored and have nothing better to do or your trying to make me feel stupid which i dont. and trying to make me a believer in evolution. you dont know anything about my what I believe on the origins of life on this planet cause i havent expressed them! yet you keep implying that my beliefs are religious based! but I havent said, so your makeing assumptions! therefor makeing you ignorant!

Walka who you callin a noob!?!? I was posting on UTR before you even knew it exsisited or what a rave was!! so go home I think I hear you mom calling!

[Walka]

lol if I only cared what you thought! this cant be argued!! cause i dont I believe it!! maybe im wrong maybe your wrong! WHO CARES! that fact that you keep going on and on about it either means your bored and have nothing better to do or your trying to make me feel stupid which i dont. and trying to make me a believer in evolution. you dont anything know about my opinion on the origins of life on this planet cause i havent expressed them! yet you keep implying that my beliefs are religious based! but I havent said, so your makeing assumptions! therefor makeing you ignorant!

Walka who you callin a noob!?!? I was posting on UTR before you even knew it exsisited or what a rave was!! so go home I think I hear you mom calling!

...

:rolleyes:

[KC Meat]

lol if I only cared what you thought! this cant be argued!! cause I dont believe it!! maybe im wrong maybe your wrong! WHO CARES!You're the one who said you don't think evolution should be taught in schools, cuz you don't think it's true...k, so you don't know enough about evolution to even properly discuss it, yet you're so strongly sure that it's wrong, that you don't think they should be teaching it in school...people like you who somehow get power = dangerous...I'm sorry you missed the point of my posts...I wasn't trying to say "EVOLUTION IS RIGHT, YOU ARE WRONG!"...I way saying "You're talking down on evolution, yet your opinion of evolution is completely uneducated and ignorant"...there IS a difference...

that fact that you keep going on and on about it either means your bored and have nothing better to do or your trying to make me feel stupid which i dont.Yea, I AM bored, that's the only reason I post on this board...as for trying to make you feel stupid...hahaha...no...nothing I can say would ever make you feel differently about yourself...I'm sure most everybody who reads what you've written already has their mind made up on that one...haha...I've merely pointed out that you came into a thread discussing the origin of man, talked down on evolution, and then blatantly showed that you don't even have a proper understanding of it...yes, you have your opinion on evolution and I'm sorry it's a severely uneducated one...I never said that evolution is the absolute correct answer on our origin, I said out of what is currently offered, it makes the most sense and we're continually finding more and more evidence to show that it may very well be what happened...all you've offered is that it's wrong, then tried to make points about it that were so uneducated that no matter what you say after that, nobody's going to give you any bit of credibility...it's how the world works, deal with it...if you don't fully understand a topic, shut your mouth and don't talk about it...or if you ARE going to open your mouth on that topic, ask questions to find out more about it, to become educated, rather than act like you know enough...you are free to express your opinion, but when your opinion involves a topic that you blatantly don't understand, you really shouldn't be surprised when people who understand it try to make you realize that you don't...that's my only goal, I don't care what your ultimate belief is, I just want you to realize that when it comes to evolution, you don't know shit, and I'd recommend you stop acting like you do if you want other people to give you any kind of credibility...what you do know is wrong, and you've proven that over and over...


and trying to make me a believer in evolution. you dont know anything about my what I believe on the origins of life on this planet cause i havent expressed them! yet you keep implying that my beliefs are religious based! but I havent said, so your makeing assumptions! therefor makeing you ignorant!I couldn't give a shit less if you believe in evolution or not, I'm more concerned with you ACTING LIKE YOU KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT EVOLUTION TO HAVE A VALID OPINION OF IT AND REMOVE IT FROM SCHOOLS...if you wanna be ignorant and not believe in evolution b/c it doesn't make sense to you, fine, I don't give a shit, but please don't sit there and act like you've gathered enough information to proclaim that it doesn't make sense...everything you said that doesn't make sense has already been explained by evolution if you would simply learn it properly...and I never said that whatever you believe must be based upon religion, I merely used the two examples you gave me...you said:

im sorry but the theory of evolution is just as lame as Creationism/Adam and Eve theory. I dont think either should be taught in school!and then said you wanted proof..I took the two examples you gave and showed which one has more proof...I also said
Yea, religion and non-scientifically based theories have a higher record of being "right" than science...what are we thinking for using science?I included "non-scientifically based theories" for you...feel special...

Once again, in case you're too lazy to read everything I wrote and/or missed my point:

I don't care what you believe! Please stop talking/acting like you know enough about evolution to say it's not true and should be removed from schools! Everything you've said about evolution is a clear indication that you DON'T understand it, and THAT can't be argued...

[Kaos]

Bhairava -

Remove your head from the virgin mary's ass, and for one time in your life, DONT be a fucking sheep, and think for yourself.


ohhh wait, those in religion that question and think for themselves, are called heretics, im sorry, i forgot that in order to be accepted by the grace of god, one must blindly accept that which is said to be gospel truth.

Religion is, was and always will be, a form of control, used by those with power, to control those without power.

Answer me this Bhairava, what other mammal's DNA matches the human DNA strand with almost 98.9% accuracy?

its not a Chimp, Orang, or any other primate, thats all im going to tell you, if you want to know, look into it, im sure the result will shock you...

im going to go out on a limb here, and im going to guess, that you think that humans, are somehow superior to say, a tiger or a bear. sure we have mastered the art of spoken language ( some of us ) , and we have the ability to make and use tools ( along with half a dozen other animals in the animal kingdom ) and we have nuclear weapons, so we MUST be the superior species on the planet right....

so my question to you, is two fold, being that your religious and have such a profound understanding as to the true creation of this planet and all life on it.

Do animals have a Soul?

and

Is Human Morality and ethics, a learned ideal or an instinct?

Both would seem to be completely innocent questions, but ask your bible thumping religicon masters those same questions, and see the reactions you get.

You probably feel that Bush is fully justified in Veto'ing bills that would allow for the collection of stem cells from unborn fetuses, because it destroys the sanctity of human life or some such rot.

who cares about the millions of cancer patients that would live long happy lives due to the tech that could be developed with that bill being passed, forget about the advances in AIDS research that could be done in labs with that kind of tech, and forget about the regenerative technology that would allow people waiting years on donor lists waiting for organs, to finally be home with the family after months of living plugged into a machine to stay alive.

as far as im concerned, religion is DEAD, its time has passed, it is nothing more then a drag and drain on the human race as a whole.

Millions of people, wont die as a result of a scientific study.

But millions of people die every year, in the name of any number of gods, blood is shed over useless land, in the name of god, innocent children and the elderly, are all killed, in the name of some god.

( yes i know i got off topic, but if there is one thing i hate more then blatant stupidity and ignorance, is religious zealotry, besides, its only religious nuts that object to teaching evolution in schools, i have no issues with teaching creationism in school, its simply an IDEA, just like evolution, but its religious asshats like you, that have to have your cake and eat it too, gfyadiaf )

[s0crat0kes]

No, its well documented that Eve was a fruit whore (ie the modern day equivalent to coke whore) and that she fornicated with Satan's minions. Thats why we have all the evil we do today, thats why I'm here bitches :thefinger:


So here's a question, mostly directed towards the practitioners of the Christian faiths. The held belief is that Adam & Eve are the sires of the human race. They had children, their children had children and their children's children had children. But here's what I'd like to know.

For this to have been true, then that means that Adam & Eves offspring had to have copulated with each other, and in turn their children copulated with each other (or worse yet with their parents) and so on and hence fourth. Now wouldn't this have lead to a very large portion of the population being rather inbred? First rule of genetics, spread the genes around, so I'm told. Just curious what the varying churches stance is on this.

[Bhairava]

KC get over it!!! no matter what you say or think is right, I have my own opinion! as for what other people on this board think of me I could careless! this may come as a shock to you but some of us UTRAVERS, have a great big life off the board you should try and get one! im not responding to anything, anyone else has to say concerning MY OPINION on Evolution especially if you call me names and get all childish i mean serriously does my opinion about evolution scare you!?!? you all sure act like it. im entitled to my own opinion and I dont really care if it differs from yours!! lol your nobody to me except another name on a message board, and I dont give a fuck about you!


that is all
Peace.

[suckafish]

why y'all hatin? opinions are neither wrong or right. they're just that.. opinions duh. evolution cannot be proven and neither can adam and eve. neither, yet. the thing with the Bible and christianity is, it's not something you prove to the whole world, but something you search for yourself, for your own understanding. that's what faith is. you just accept it to be true. lots of you accept evolution to be true, yet there is no proof of that either.

i for one do not believe in evolution. i believe in adaptation.

[Killy]

It is my opinion that the Earth is flat and is balancing on the back of an intergalactic turtle. All your facts to prove otherwise mean nothing as they are just your opinion. Evolution cannot be proved 100% until someone builds a time machine and records the beginning. Since that isn't going to happen we have to use these pesky little things called facts and scientifically tested observations. BTW adaptation is a simplistic evolution.

[PapaChops]

While opinions are harmless by themselves, when a group of like-minded individuals gather together with a glaringly ignorant and uneducated opinion about a topic, that can be dangerous. If you don't believe me, read up on the Westboro Baptist Church, or any of the groups pushing to have Evolution removed from the classroom and/or the teaching of Creationism in a science class.

Bhavira, please in your own words explain to me the theory of evolution. Please try to be somewhat detailed. I'm not saying this to ridicule you, prove you wrong, nor make you believe something other than what you believe. I just want to have a better understanding of your viewpoint, because quite honestly, I'm having a hard time understanding how someone could believe what you believe without being someone who believes in Creationism.

The only other reason I can come up with is complete apathy for the world around you, which makes me weep to see someone truly that detached from ones surroundings. True, evolution is still considered a theory, and probably will remain so for quite some time. But if you want to be really technical, everything in science is technically a theory. I went through a period in my life where I had a similar viewpoint to yours(or at least as far as I can tell, still not sure what exactly you believe) a question everything, nothing is for certain unless you see what you consider clear evidence.

In short, all I can really say is that you should read up on evolution, genetics and science in general, it will (hopefully) give you a better understanding of the world around you. And while that might not change your opinions, at least your opinions will be somewhat more educated.

Also, if it's not too intrusive, may I ask how old are you?

[suckafish]

you go to hell! you go to hell and you die!

http://www.cannibalthemusical.net/images/garrison.jpg

[KC Meat]

OMG, I seriously wish people would understand the point I've been trying to make...I even put it into simple terms in case they missed it...one more time!

I am NOT saying evolution is right. I am saying that out of the choices we have in front of us right now, it makes the most sense and has the most scientific evidence to prove it. The ONLY thing I was trying to get across to Bhairava was that, yes, he has an opinion on evolution, but it's a SEVERELY uneducated one, as in everything he thinks doesn't make sense with it is actaully explained by it if you research/understand it.

If you are going to have an opinion on something, please, for the love of god, make it an educated opinion. Bhairava's opinion of evolution is so uneducated that you can't even count it as a valid opinion. That would be like me having an opinion of the current tax laws, even though I don't know shit about them, nobody would listen to me (shit, nobody does anyway, according to how many people overlooked my simplistic explanation of what my ultimate point was).

Kaos: Bhairava already said his theory isn't religion based, so the majority of your post doesn't even apply

Killy: Right on :D

[KC Meat]

In short, all I can really say is that you should read up on evolution, genetics and science in general, it will (hopefully) give you a better understanding of the world around you. And while that might not change your opinions, at least your opinions will be somewhat more educated.Exactly!! Brownie points for you!! God damn, thank you, somebody got the point (other than Killy, but he's just a given haha)...

[PapaChops]

I got what you were saying, KC. While I can understand why someone might interpret your posts to be condescending and aggressive, I grew up around intellectuals so I have an easy time seeing through all that. The curse of being well versed and intelligent, I suppose;)

[KC Meat]

Funny how many times it's the retards who think you're being condescending, simply b/c they think they're dumb and have self issues...or they're put in their place and realize they really are stupid/don't know what they're talking about...they're used to hanging with idiots, cuz that's the only people who will tolerate their bullshit opinions...hahahaha

Edit: Yes, that WAS meant to be condescending :D

[PapaChops]

It's easy to understand why they do that. Think of it like a rural farmer having a conversation with someone with a doctorate in psychology. The psychologist is going to use words and talk in a manner totally foreign and more advanced then the farmer is capable to understand.

Though the psychologist might not realize it, he's more or less talking down to the farmer. He's on a balcony yelling down at the farmer, in essence. While it might not be intentional, it's easy for the farmer to take that as an insult. The courteous thing to do is to tone down your communication to one that would be easier for the farmer to understand, rather then continue to speak as you normally do until you eventually become frustrated/condescending because he can't grasp what to you are simple concepts.

I'm not saying that's what you do, but that's why people who are less educated then you will often react in a defensive manner. I was raised by the arguably one of the most intelligent human being I've ever known and spent most of my childhood in rural areas, trust me I know what it's like to be that psychologist :p

EDIT: Hehe, when you first started it wasn't too bad. But by the end you were basically dissecting him like a lab animal, was quite gruesome.

[suckafish]

If you are going to have an opinion on something, please, for the love of god, make it an educated opinion.so my picture and caption of mr. garrison would not count as an educated opinion, i take it.

[PapaChops]

Y'know what's funny, is so far everyone (as far as I can tell) that has posted a response to this question has more or less shared a similar viewpoint as myself. I'm surprised Tbeck or one of the other follows of the Christian-faiths hasn't posted a response, would like to hear a well versed counter viewpoint (And I know you guys are capable of it:D)

[Killy]

Oh, in case you were wondering the giant turtle is named Vishnu. He also shows up in Buddhist mythology (seeing as they split off from each other), which would mean the giant turtle god is worshipped by at least 2 billion people.

[suckafish]

the answer to the original question is yes.

[KC Meat]

It's easy to understand why they do that. Think of it like a rural farmer having a conversation with someone with a doctorate in psychology. The psychologist is going to use words and talk in a manner totally foreign and more advanced then the farmer is capable to understand.

Though the psychologist might not realize it, he's more or less talking down to the farmer. He's on a balcony yelling down at the farmer, in essence. While it might not be intentional, it's easy for the farmer to take that as an insult. The courteous thing to do is to tone down your communication to one that would be easier for the farmer to understand, rather then continue to speak as you normally do until you eventually become frustrated/condescending because he can't grasp what to you are simple concepts.

I'm not saying that's what you do, but that's why people who are less educated then you will often react in a defensive manner..Oh, I fully understand WHY they react they way they do...but instead of taking that feeling of angry inferiority and being a pigheaded jackass, why not educate yourself on whatever it is at hand?...instead of trying to fight the person and continue acting like you know what you're talking about, ask questions, LEARN!...I know, I know, they aren't used to it, don't know how, and don't feel they should have to change to accomodate my pretentious ass...whatever...at that point my goal changes from conversation to informing them that they really don't know what they're talking about and to please refrain from further discussions with other people, for their own sake...I dumbed it down as much as I could w/o turning into an idiot myself, and the jackass STILL overlooked it and kept saying "It's my opinion, you can't argue it!"...haha...Oh can't I? hahaha ...if I said "my opinion is that black people are inferior to whites," you can bet your ass any and everybody would instantly be trying to argue my opinion with me...


EDIT: Hehe, when you first started it wasn't too bad. But by the end you were basically dissecting him like a lab animal, was quite gruesome.I'm a scientist, I LOVE disecting things ;) ....when I first start out with something like this, I will try to make them understand and am more than happy to help them understand, so long as they maintain a respectful tone and are open to learning...this jackass completely ignored everything I and others were saying and kept reiterating that he has his opinion, he has his opinion...yes, you have an opinion...but that's not where it stops, there are different TYPES of opinions...educated and uneducated...people are going to judge you and the validity of your opinion upon whether or not you made an educated opinion...if you have a completely uneducated opinion and stick to it, despite what people are saying around you, you are instantly perceived to be an idiot/moron...whereas had you taken a step back, gathered the info they were providing and acknowledged that info, they would retain respect for you, as you've shown yourself to be intelligent, just uninformed...

Intellectual people don't mind if you're mis/uninformed, so long as you are open to new information...you don't have to change your viewpoint, just acknowledge that you've considered the information...upon considering new information you will either A) change your viewpoint, or B) maintain your viewpoint but have EDUCATED, modified reasons for not thinking their way...example:

Instead of saying stupid things like "why would two species shareing the same common ancestor take off in two different directions? while shareing the same environment! it makes no sense! none at all." (direct quote) you might say "I don't think it's completely right b/c there would have had to be an abnormal boom of evolution during a certain time for every species present to exist, a boom that happened once and we can't for the life of us figure out how or why"...he gets to keep his point of view, but at least now his opinion is educated...(I'm gonna regret giving him that info, cuz now he'll use that instead of the BS he put before and APPEAR to be intelligent on the topic)

People like that will continue to walk around talking to people (usually idiots) that will listen to their "intellectual" conversation, but run away from anybody who actually understands the topic at hand...nothing irritates me more than idiots acting intelligent, and actually THINKING they ARE intelligent when the things coming out of their mouth/mind are anything but...you don't get to be an idiot and ACT intelligent, no, you actually have to work for the intelligence like the rest of us did...everybody has the potential to be intelligent, it's just a shame the majority of people don't use it...

[Kaos]

KC - yeah, i saw that, but anytime that topic comes up where the opposition to the " Logical right answer " is " Because ______ Says ______ "

Where either blank, can be filled with ANY religion or religious writing of any kind, chances are im going to just side with logic on principal.

I always choose that wich i can see and touch, over that wich can not be touched.

Like i said, teach both, educated people understand that even with their education, they dont know it all, its the arrogant ignorant fuckers with little real intelligence, that think they know everything, Also teaching both in schools would do a lot more to teach kids at a young age to accept differences openly, and that its not only okay, but TOTALLY ENCOURAGED, for the young to see and ask and question that wich is taught as fact.

Lying to our children, and telling them humans ARE the spawn of a god, isnt doing them a service,

Lying to our children, and telling them humans ARE evolved from " monkeys ", isnt doing them a service either.

Teaching them both ideals, and letting them understand that NO ONE really KNOWS the right answer, is the only way to teach them truthfully....

[KC Meat]

Uhm...I don't feel Adam and Eve should be taught in school, as it is COMPLETELY religion-based...if they're going to a religious school, go for it, but anybody who wants their kid to know about Adam and Eve will have taken their kid to church and the kid will have already learned about it...I think they should teach evolution in school b/c it actually has scientific reasoning behind it, as well as documented forms of proof (not ENTIRELY proving, but proof showing that there's a damn good chance it's going on)...but they should be required to inform the kids that it is the THEORY of evolution, they should NOT be able to proclaim it as the absolute truth...if you're going to teach adam and eve in public schools, then you're also going to be required to teach every other religion's view on how man came to be...science is a valid school topic, thus a science-based approach should be allowed...there's not an ounce of religion to evolution...creationism, there is...the second you add a hint of religion, it's not going to go over well in public school, mainly b/c of the parents...despite not believing in adam and eve, I fully intend to expose my children to it, as they won't get it at school...I will take my children to catholic church, as i was, but I won't be a practicing member, it will be purely for their sake/experience...I will provide them all the chances they need to make up their own mind and have an EDUCATED decision/opinion...

[Kaos]

Im not saying get into the total history of adam and eve and the entire biblical storyline and all, they wont understand it unless they are older children, but kids start asking these questions at a pretty young age, about the same time they get facinated with dinosaurs and museums and that stuff.

so at about 6-9 years old, they are not going to understand god, they are not going to understand chromosomes either, or at least not that well, at about that age, have like an additional class once a week, " History of Humans " or something like that, and have it be based on both the factual provable things about humanity and its changes over the centuries we have seen, and the basics of both the scientific and " church " versions of where man came from also.

no need to go back to predated texts and teach all the kids ancient hebrew, a simple " outline of gods creation " will do, just like we wouldnt put these kids through a PhD for bioengineering to teach them the basics of evolution.

but questions like this are the ones that kids linger on, they look to adults for answers to those questions, and when an adult beats around the bush with the answer to this, or gives the kid one answer without the other, or the information that other ideas exist, it sets the kid up for early exposure to religious zealotry, and academic zealotry and the ensuing drama inbetween....

either way, neither is right, yet.... but only giving our kids one side of the coin isnt right either....

[PapaChops]

There isn't anything wrong with teaching children what creationism is, as long as you tell them that is a faith-based system, unlike evolution which is based on science and logic. However, creationism should NOT be taught in a science classroom. It has NOTHING to do with science, it is a religious idea and has no place in a high school science class. If anything, start a religious studies class on the high school/junior high level, that way they'll be exposed to a variety of religious and philosophical beliefs.

[KC Meat]

If anything, start a religious studies class on the high school/junior high level, that way they'll be exposed to a variety of religious and philosophical beliefs.Exactly, if they want to teach it, teach it in a religious studies class, don't try and pass that shit off as scientific fact, cuz it goes completely against the scientific method...you don't teach math in english class, so don't teach non-science-based curriculum in science class...

[jake]

That's the problem with both evolution and creationism. They are still both theories. People will go very far out of their way to prove that their theory is correct, but again it is still just a theory. As scientific knowledge and understanding grows, so will our knowledge to fill in the gaps of these two "theories." Who knows, 20 years from now all of the missing links could be filled in from man to monkey, or a mythical resurrected being could show up in the sky and save us all. When you go so far out of the way to tear other people down because of their beliefs, by trying to reassure what you believe by conveying it to others, you will miss out on valid points on both sides. It's ok to hear someone out w/ a different view of things, but it doesn't mean that you have to agree w/ them. The religous buffs that "feel" sorry for those without god in their lives are not any better then the atheist/agnositics who believe that anyone believing in a higher power then themselves are both naive and ignorant.

There are a couple of interesting things about the creationism story. Some ancient texts refer to Lilith as Adams first wife. As soon as Adam and Ever were created in these ancient texts they started to bicker. Lilith said she would not lie down before Adam because she was created in the same manner as he was. Adam was not ok w/ this when Lilith wouldn't obey him. So god created another wife for Adam not from the clay that he had molded Adam and Lilith from, but from a part of Adam so that she would have to obey, because she came from a part of him.

Genesis Chapter 2: 21-23. 21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a awoman (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/gen/2/22a), and brought her unto the man.

23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and aflesh (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/gen/2/23a) of my flesh: she shall be called bWoman (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/gen/2/23b), because she was taken out of Man.


Putting someone under an anesthetic and cloning someone? For all we know there is more to these biblical stories then we actually know and they could be so much more literal then people actually interpet them. Playing the what-ifs is always more fun then absolutes for stuff that we currently don't have all the answers for.

It also states in Genesis Chapter 6: 1-2 1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the asons (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/gen/6/2a) of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they btook (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/gen/6/2b) them cwives (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/gen/6/2c) of all which they chose.

So is it the sons of god, or the sons of adam, married the daughters of the humans that were already here, the ones that came about from the evolutionary process? Who knows? What if both theories are right? What if both are wrong and this life is nothing more then an illusion and Zion has already been destroyed six times and we just keep rebuilding it. (That's a matrix reference in case you missed it)

But then again it's all up to interpretation since a lot of the early bible stories were also found in the epic of Gilgamesh which was written almost 1000 years before the authors of the bible ever started to write the old testament. :D

[jake]

Oh yeah and they should teach a religious studies class in high school as a mandatory class. If christians, jews and muslims all realized that they are all worshipping the god of Abraham, they're just going about it in their own individual ways, things could get a lot more simplified in the world.

[Punkie]

Oh yeah and they should teach a religious studies class in high school as a mandatory class. If christians, jews and muslims all realized that they are all worshipping the god of Abraham, they're just going about it in their own individual ways, things could get a lot more simplified in the world.

I went to a private school and they did teach a religious studies class. We learned about multiple religions. It was actually really awesome because I learned that everyone has their own point of view on these things.... and that's ok, because nobody knows for sure.

[Lindsay]

So here's a question, mostly directed towards the practitioners of the Christian faiths. The held belief is that Adam & Eve are the sires of the human race. They had children, their children had children and their children's children had children. But here's what I'd like to know.

For this to have been true, then that means that Adam & Eves offspring had to have copulated with each other, and in turn their children copulated with each other (or worse yet with their parents) and so on and hence fourth. Now wouldn't this have lead to a very large portion of the population being rather inbred? First rule of genetics, spread the genes around, so I'm told. Just curious what the varying churches stance is on this.
I didn't read the whole thread, BUT back then the world was brand new, and none of the diseases that we have now were around then.
And, to my knowledge, God/Jesus allowed that to happen so the earth could be populated.
And if you are christian, generally that is what you believe in.

I have a real hard time believing this because I believe in evolution as well.......

edit: ok after reading this thread i feel really fucking stupid for posting this. lol.
not because of what I think i believe or whatever, but because are all so intellectual, and i, regretably, am not. ha

[suckafish]

dammit lindsay go back and read the whole thread. you're missing the point woman! >=(

[Lindsay]

dammit lindsay go back and read the whole thread. you're missing the point woman! >=(
oh goddamnit fine i will. then, and ONLY then, will I edit my post, if need be.

[Blacksunshine]

I have to admit to not reading every single word either.


BUT I did catch something about this being taught in schools.

I strongly disagree.

This should be taught in home, church, and by personal choice, experience, and opinion...not schools.

IMO of course ;)


I think there needs to be an even stronger seperation of church and state. I think we are letting that freedom become too intrusive already.

[Punkie]

I have to admit to not reading every single word either.


BUT I did catch something about this being taught in schools.

I strongly disagree.

This should be taught in home, church, and by personal choice, experience, and opinion...not schools.

IMO of course ;)


I think there needs to be an even stronger seperation of church and state. I think we are letting that freedom become too intrusive already.

The cool thing about my religion class in school was that it wasn't a set religion. They taught everything from jews, muslims, christians, even atheism was touched. The class was designed to open our eyes to other ways of thinking. None of it was taught as "truth". I came out of that class with an understanding and respect for different ideas. That was the point of the class. it was more of a history of religion then anything.